This illustrates how Slobodan Milosevic is manipulating people with his propaganda machinery. Even his own interview had to be edited for content in order to convince people that he is the man who doesn't make any mistakes. Thanks to the "Newsweek", we were able to compare original transcript of his interview with the Serbian version published in daily "Politika", newspaper run by the government. In order for you to fully understand this you need to know English and Serbian. Comment is in both languages but translation of the transcript in Serbian and version published in "Poliika" in English is unavailable.
Slobodan Milosevic je poznat kao majstor manipulacije ali je sa svojim nedavnim intervjuom nadnasio sve svoje dosadanje podvige u oblasti zloupotrebe sredstava javnog informisanja. Malo mu je bilo sto je dao intervju onako kako je on zeleo. Rekao je sve sto je zeleo da kaze dok su mu pitanja bila postavljana prema vec utvrdjenom redosledu. Zatim je takav, vec unapred smisljen intervju, editovao Dragan Hadzi Antic kako bi jos vise uzdigao svog Boga Milosevica iznad ostalih smrtnika. Intervju je inicirao sam Milosevic, pozvavsi americku novinarku da ga intervjuise. Nepoznato je samo koliko je morao da joj plati za ovaj intervju.
Q: Da li ste procitali clanak iz "Njujork tajmsa" od pre nedelju dana, u kome se kaze da ste otpustili nacelnika Generalstaba i nacelnika drzavne bezbednosti. Novinarka koja je to napisala smatra da Vi slabite, da Vasa vlast slabi i da nikad ne dajete intervjue, sto, sigurna sam, nije tacno.
A: Dao sam mnogo intervjua.
This part that he claims giving numerous interviews to the foreign press is missing from original transcript but it is present in Serbian version.
Ovaj deo se nigde ne pominje u originalnom transkriptu.
Q:Mi nemamo zakon o informisanju.
A:To je vasa stvar. Ovo je zakon Srbije.
Reporter states that US doesn't have the Information Law. Milosevic answers: "That is your problem. This is Serbian law." This was omitted in Serbian version.
Ovo je namerno izbaceno iz originala.
Q:Ja poticem iz jedne vrlo bogate porodice. Licno sam bila mnogo puta napadnuta i to je vrlo neprijatno. U potpunosti se slazem s Vama, ali u Americi to je deo igre, deo zivota. Morate da naucite da zivite sa tim.
A:Gospodjo, Vi govorite o svojoj porodici. Mogu ja Vama da kazem o mojoj porodici. Za poslednjih deset godina bezbroj puta su u stampi napali i mene i moju porodicu i ja nisam nikada nista demantovao. Nikada nisam nikog poslao u zatvor. Nikada nije zabranjen nijedan list.
Original:
Q:I will guarantee you it's very, very unpleasant, but it's part of the game in America, it's part of life, you just have to learn, you roll with the punches.
A:Miss, may I tell you something ...
Q:It's very unpleasant.
A:I will explain that for ten years I was attacked a million times through the press. I never deny anything, I never send anybody to jail, I never close any newspapers, I never prohibited one single issue of one single newspaper in this country, never, never, never through ten years.
Editor of Serbian version inserted that reporter is from very rich family although reporter never said that. Also, Milosevic stated that he never closed or banned a single issue of any paper during previous ten years of his rule in Serbia. In Serbian version he claims that he never closed any paper. But the real jewel is what comes next. After this lie, reporter claims that she heard from everyone that this is the truth. In original transcript, reporter heard everyone complaining about lack of freedom of press.
Q: But don't they want more freedom, more freedom of speech, more freedom to print newspapers, more academic freedom?
A: Who has no freedom of speech in Serbia?
Q: Every single document I've read and every person I've spoken to ...
A: That is—I don't want to use in front of [a] lady that kind of American expression, but you can suppose what I wish to say-you know how many media we have in Yugoslavia? 2,500 different media.
Dodato je da je novinarka iz bogate porodice i izbrisano je da je Milosevic rekao kako nikada nije zabranio nijedan broj bilo kojih novina. Stoji samo da nikada nije zabranio nijedne novine. Ali najveci biser je izmisljeni komentar novinarke. Posle ove lazi kako nikada nije zabranio nijedne novine novinarka odgovara:
Q: To sam i ja cula.
A: Nikada nije zabranjen nijedan primerak bilo kojih novina.
Q: To sam i ja cula.
A: To traje vec 10 godina.
I to cak dva puta! U originalnoj verziji, reporterka tvrdi da su se svi njeni sagovornici zalili na gusenje nezavisnih medija. Svi znaju da je on veliki pokrovitelj slobode govora u Srbiji.
In Serbian version, Milosevic never mentioned phony referendum.
Q: Imam jedno pitanje iz druge oblasti. Interesuje me nesto. Za samo 2 dana koliko sam ovde, imala sam priliku da se uverim koliko ozbiljno ljudi shvataju pitanje Kosova. Pitam se da li ste Vi, kako mi to u Americi kazemo, napravili jednu razumnu pogodbu u pogledu Kosova, u pogledu privremenih aranzmana. Da li cete s tim u vezi biti suoceni sa otporom u Vasoj sopstvenoj zemlji? Od ljudi koji zele da zadrze Kosovo. Da li razumete sta hocu da kazem?
A: Pretpostavljam da govorite o razumnom resenju.
Q:Ne, da li cete sa politicke tacke gledista biti suoceni sa otporom. Da sam u Njujorku to mi uopste ne bi palo na pamet. Ali ovde ljudi pevaju pesme o Kosovu itd. Mi u Americi to ne mozemo da shvatimo. Mi smatramo da se vi ponasate iracionalno. Svi ljudi stalno govore o Kosovu...
A: Logicno je da Vi u Americi ne mozete da razumete sve u Srbiji, ni mi u Srbiji ne razumemo sve u Americi.
Q: Ne, ja samo hocu da mi Vi odgovorite na jedno pitanje. Nemojte da okolisite. Da li bi Vam bilo tesko, u slucaju da u vezi sa Kosovom postignete neko razumno resenje, da li biste bili suoceni sa puno politickog otpora u Vasoj zemlji, zbog toga sto su emocije izuzetno jake kada je u pitanju Kosovo.
A: Niko u Srbiji ne bi prihvatio, i to je sasvim tacno, da Kosovo bude van Srbije.
Gde se izgubio referendum?
Q: I'm impressed at the strong feeling about Kosovo I've seen here. If you make a deal would you feel threatened in [your] own country? Do you understand what I'm saying, politically? I was asking you: in the United States we think you're unreasonable, but we see all these people yelling in Kosovo
A: Do you know, do you know, madam, we had [a] referendum in Serbia.
Q: No, no, I just want you to tell me this one thing, don't go around the subject. I just want to know say you wanted to agree to the sensible deal on Kosovo would you face a lot of opposition in your country, because there's so much strong feeling about Kosovo ...
A: Yes, and it' s...
Q: ... and it's like the heart of Serbia
A: I tell you, and this is the truth: no one will accept Kosovo outside of Serbia.
Predsednik se izgleda posramio svog referenduma.
His answers about Montenegro are completely edited and cut from original. He stated that Djukanovic is complaining about lack of seats in federal parliament but not because Bulatovic's men are taking them but because he wants the same number of seats that Serbia have in order to dominate Yugoslavia.
Q: Koliko sam shvatila strogi ste prema vasem susedu Crnoj Gori.
A: Crna Gora nije sused Jugoslavije, ona je deo Jugoslavije.
Q: Prema onom gospodinu koji je pobedio na izborima?
A: U cemu je problem?
Q: Da on hoce da ode, da Crna Gora hoce da se otcepi?
A: Ne, mislim da nije tako. Narod to ne bi hteo, to ne zavisi od jednog coveka ili grupe ljudi.
Milosevic ne zeli da Srbi i Crnogorci cuju lazi koje on govori o Djukanovicu pa tako se brise sledece:
Q: I understand you've been tough on your neighbor in Montenegro, the gentleman who won the elections.
A: Who are you talking about? We were just polite.
Q: He wants to put his people in the parliament and you don't want them there, right?
A: No, no, that was not the truth. You know what was the problem.
Q: Does he want to leave? Does Montenegro want to break off?
A: I don't believe so, people don't want that to happen. But what happened with that parliament problem, you know, in the house of republics, both republics Serbia and Montenegro, they have equal portions of that house—20 representatives of Serbia with ten million people and 20 representatives of Montenegro with half a million people, but that is okay with [the] equality of republics. But that representation of 20 people from the republic has to be created in the structure of their own parliament, so they have to have the same structure in that house of Republic as they have in Federal Republic. We have the same thing here. They were not respecting that and that is against Federal constitution, that is the only difference, nothing else. I hope they will change that.
Posto to nije istina onda zasto je objaviti kako bi ljudi stekli pogresan utisak o sukobu sa Crnom Gorom. Djukanovic zeli da dominira Jugoslavijom a ne da postavi narodne poslanike u Savezni parlament umesto Bulatovicevih gorila.
Reporter asked him about his speeches that contained idea of Greater Serbia. She asked him specifically about his speech in 1987. when he called Serbs to rise up. In Serbian version, year 1987 was replaced with 1989. Reporter stated that she read his speech while in Serbian version it says that she read it somewhere.
Q: Ljudi kazu za Vas da imate viziju Velike Srbije. Odrzali ste govor 1989. Pozvali ste Srbe da ustanu i to je bio pocetak...
A: To nije tacno. Pristalica velike Jugoslavije
Q: Ja sam to negde procitala.
A: Lose ste obavesteni. Nigde nisam odrzao govor u kome sam pozvao Srbe da ustanu. Naprotiv. Ja sam bio 1989. pristalica velike Jugoslavije.
Nije negde nego je procitala tekst originalnog govora.
Q: So people say you have a vision for Greater Serbia—you made that famous speech in 1987 when you called on all Serbs to rise up—and that was the beginning of your political career ...
A: Who said my speech was ...
Q: I read it.
A: If you find anything that was in common with nationalism, I will say that I was lying. We never had that problem in Greater Serbia, never.
Novinarka nigde ne pominje 1989. godinu vec 1987. S obzirom da Milosevic u SPS verziji tvrdi da je bio za Veliku Jugoslaviju 1989. godine to onda povlaci da je on bio pristalica Velike Srbije od 1987-1989. Onda, posto je uspeo da promeni Ustav, pomislio je da moze da zadrzi celu Jugoslaviju u svojim rukama a ne samo Srbiju sto je prvobitno i bio cilj. Na kraju je cak opalio: :"Da mi nikada nismo imali taj problem u Velikoj Srbiji, nikad." O cemu on bunca ovde?
This part is about his wife, Mira Markovic. He mentioned where her books were published. In Serbian version, Great Britain and Italy were deleted from that list and replaced with Mexico and India probably because those countries are enemies of his government. Publishing books in those countries would be considered as treason.
Q: U novinama pise da Vasa supruga igra veoma vaznu ulogu.
A: Ona je univerzitetski profesor i autor vise knjiga. Mozete da ih procitate, jer su neke od njenih knjiga prevedene na engleski. Cak sam video da je jedna prevedena na farsi u Teheranu. Na koricama je njena slika i to je bila jedina slika jedne zene bez obavezne marame, koju su dozvolili. Njene knjige su izdate u Kini, Indiji, Kanadi, Rusiji, Meksiku. Prevedene su na vise od 20 jezika. Ona je veoma aktivna u javnom zivotu, ali nikad nije pokusala da uctie na mene iz senke oko mojih drzavnih poslova. Ona ne zeli da bude "uticajna supruga". Ona ima svoj sopstveni javni zivot.
Original:
Q: What about your wife? They say in the newspapers she plays a very strong role. Is that so?
A: My wife is [a] university professor, my wife is writing books—maybe you can read some books of hers which were translated in many languages. I saw the last book of hers which was translated in Farsi in Teheran. I was surprised. It was the only picture they allowed to be printed without [a] — what [do] you call it, scarf. But her books are printed in China, in Russia, in Canada, the United Kingdom, Italy, in more than 20 languages. She is very active in public life, no doubt, but she never tried to influence me about my business in State. She doesn't like to be [a] wife who is an influence — she has her own public life.
Zasto SPS prikriva da se Mirine knjige stampaju u Engleskoj i Italiji?
Reporter asked him about relationship between his wife and the chief of state security. In original, Milosevic admitted existence of some rumors, that two of thrm don't like each other, but that they are not founded. In Serbian version, rumors have been removed and replaced with "sincere relationship". Milosevic tries to cover up those rumors from Serbs.
Q: Ali ljudi kazu da nije volela sefa drzavne bezbednosti?
A: To nije tacno. Naprotiv. Vec godinama je sa njim u vrlo srdacnim odnosima.
Original:
Q: People say she didn't like the chief of secret service.
A: That was nothing personal, absolutely not. [These are] stupid rumors, which have no basis in anything.
Sta to nije bilo licno? Kakve su to glasine?
Next, Serbian version states that reporter claimed that opposition is weak, that Milosevic is clever strategist and that she heard all that from opposition itself. Original is different. Reported heard that opposition is weak but she didn't mention any source plus she never said that he is clever strategist.
Q: Ali cula sam od vase opozicije, svi kazu da ste veoma lukav strateg i da je opozicija veoma slaba.
A: Ne, nije slaba. Kada su u pitanju nacionalni interesi, nema razlike izmedju opozicije i vlasti. Vi imate demokrate i republikance koji se bore medju sobom. Ali kada su u pitanju nacionalni interesi Amerike, onda nema sukoba. Tada su svi zajedno. U nasoj zemlji je isto. Mi imamo opoziciju u parlamentu, glavna opoziciona partija je partija g. Draskovica, SPO. Ali kada se radi o Kosovu, na istom su koloseku.
Original:
Q: I hear the opposition here is very weak, is that correct?
A: No it is not weak, but in terms of national interest, [the] opposition in parliament has no different approach. That is that. You have Republicans and Democrats and they are fighting each other, but in terms of national interest they are not fighting with each other, they are together. And our country is the same. In our parliament in the case of Kosovo, they are completely on the same track.
Gde nadjose ono "lukav strateg"? Novinarka je rekla da je cula da je opozicija slaba a ne da opozicija tvrdi da je slaba. Svako ko je sa njom govorio rekao je da trazi vise slobode govora.
This part about an Albanian who stands trial because he was caught guarding his home with rifle was significantly edited and altered. In Serbian version, Milosevic claims that he is unaware of this case and talks only about what law in Serbia says about illegal possession of weapons. He also lies that possession of hunting rifles is not allowed in Serbia. No one mentioned automatic weapons.
Q: Citala sam sinoc da ce se mozda suditi jednom Albancu na Kosovu samo zato sto je cuvao strazu ispred svoje kuce.
A: Ne znam te detalje.
Q: To je veoma vazan detalj. Kada bismo Vi ili ja stajali ispred nasih kuca sa oruzjem, to ne bi bio zlocin. Zasto se onda sudi Albancima? U tekstu pise da je samo cuvao strazu pred kucom.
A: Drzanje oruzja nije dozvoljeno ni u vasoj zemlji za civile. I kod vas je za to potrebna dozvola policije. U nasem zakonu upravo zbog opasne situacije izazvane ratovima u Bosni i Hrvatskoj, policija nema pravo ni da izda dozvole za oruzje sa dugim cevima civilima. Mozete imati dozvolu za pistolj, ali ne za automatsko oruzje i da radite s njim sta hocete.
Q: Meni ovo deluje kao dosta nevina stvar. Ne vidim zbog cega je to zlocin.
A: Nije zlocin, ali nije nevina stvar u postojecim uslovima i na Kosovu.
Ovaj deo je dobrano isecen:
Q: I was reading an Albanian could be tried just for standing guard out in front of his house.
A: Oh, those details ...
Q: That's a pretty big detail. I mean if you or I were standing outside our house with a gun — that's not a crime, why should we be sent ...
A: What is [a] crime?
Q: Well this is what it said in the newspapers; it said an Albanian was just standing guard outside his house ...
A: Standing guard? With a weapon?
Q: With a gun.
A: To have a gun in your country is not allowed for civilians.
Q: Oh no, we can have guns.
A: You cannot have guns.
Q: Yes we can.
A: With the permission of the police?
Q: Right.
A: But not without permission of the police. In our law, just because of the war in Bosnia, Croatia and everywhere, for civilians it is out of any possibility even for police to issue a license for the long rifles, for the long guns. You can't have a license to have a revolver or pistol, but not [a] Kalashnikov, get the license to get [a] Kalashnikov, to have machine gun and to perform what you want with machine guns.
Q: It just sounds like a pretty innocent thing to do, I just can't see why that's a crime.
A: If we allow to citizens to get fooling around with Kalashnikovs?
Q: I don't mean that, I mean if a guy's just standing outside his house, why is that a crime?
A: I don't know, only illegal wearing of arms? If he had [a] legal license to wear arms, that was not a crime.
Q: I don't know, but it didn't sound too good.
A: But that's a small crime if you have a gun without doing anything with that gun. That gun will be taken from you and you will be penalized.
Nije rekao "koje detalje" nego "a, ti detalji", sto pokazuje da zna o cemu se radi. Tvrdi da u Srbiji niko nema pravo na posedovanje lovackih puski, sto nije tacno. Novinarka nije napomenula da se radi o automatskom oruzju.
This part is missing in Serbian version. Serbs must not know this:
Q: So you think it's unfair that you've been made the poster child for genocide in Europe?
A: Absolutely, that was unbased totally. Whatever we were doing was to stop that bloody, tragic war in Bosnia. That was our aim from beginning to the end.
Ovoga nema u SPS verziji.
In original, Milosevic claimed that Yugoslavia was never a communist country. This was deleted in Serbian version.
Q: Jugoslavija je bila komunisticka zemlja, ali umerenija.
A: Nikada nismo bili clan Istocnog bloka, koji nas je kritikovao zbog obnove kapitalizma. Bili smo veoma slobodna zemlja. Moram da Vam kazem da sam kao bankar u Titovoj Jugoslaviji bio slobodan u svom poslu. Niko mi nije govorio sta treba da radim i imao sam svoje osnivace kojima sam odgovarao. Postojala je Skupstina banke i Upravni odbor i imali smo izvanrednu saradnju sa mnogim bankama u svetu. Dobro smo radili, banka je u to vreme imala 13 milijardi dolara.
Original:
Q: So [in those days] Yugoslavia was a communist country that was more moderate, looked to the West, right?
A: Yugoslavia was never [a] communist country, never a member of that Eastern bloc. We were criticized by all of them for restoring capitalism, and we were [a] free country, and I must tell you as a banker in Tito's Yugoslavia, I was free. And nobody was telling me from the government what to do. I had my shareholders to listen to at the assembly of the bank, and a managing board to decide on everything. We had excellent cooperation with many banks in the world, and we were working well. [The] bank at that time had 13 billion dollars.
U originalu je rekao da Jugoslavija nikada nije bila komunisticka zemlja. To je izbaceno u SPS verziji.
This part was completely removed from Serbian version. It is about Yugoslavia and communism.
Ovaj deo je kompletno izbacen iz SPS verzije. Iz njega vidimo da Milosevic priznaje da je bio sef komunisticke partije, da tvrdi da je jugoslovenska komunisticka partija bila separatisticki pokret, da je u vreme njegovog dolaska na vlast vladao jednopartijski sistem.
Q: So what did you do after '83?
A: From '84 I was engaged in politics.
Q: What did you do at the beginning?
A: In the beginning, I was in Belgrade.
Q: What level of politics?
A: I was president of [the] party in Belgrade.
Q: The Communist party?
A: Yes, that was [the] only party.
Q: You're telling me.
A: It was a mono-party system.
Q: If you remember, we were fighting the Communist Party. We were busy fighting Russia, if you remember.
A: Oh, that was a separatist movement.
Q: So you became president of the Communist Party, and you come to office and then you made your famous speech?
A: You can read all my speeches and you will never find anything I am blamed for. I have made a lot of speeches and I don't know what speech you're talking about.
Q: Kosovo.
A: Oh yes, Kosovo that was not one speech, that was lot of speeches.
Q: So in 1987 ...
A: I became the leader of Serbia in 1987.
Q: How did you get to be leader of Serbia? Were you elected?
A: I was elected many times—
Q: Why did you want to leave the bank and go into politics?
A: At that time we had a lot of problems in Yugoslavia with banks that were bankrupt, then [the] Federal government issued state guarantees for those banks. I was opposing that. I said good banks such as my bank ... would survive very easily, those were good banks. But they decided to issue state guarantees to those bad banks and I said that was a big mistake. They were sending to me cables preventing [me] to pay back my debts. I rejected that, saying I was taking those loans, I will pay [them] back. So that way issued the law.
Q: So that's when you decided to go into politics?
A: Yes. Predominantly at that time in which we have not any confrontations with the republics. But that is a long story, and [there]is too short [a] time to tell you about that now.
"Politika" claims that Serbian transcript of interview conducted in English is authentic:
"Politika" objavljuje prevod magnetofonskog zapisa ovog razgovora redosledom kojim je vodjen, bez sistematizovanja pojedinih tema.
Ordinarna laz! Uporedite redosled originala i SPS verzije.
At the end of Serbian version there is a footnote that quotes Slobodan Milosevic: "I'm asking you to read this text and if you find anything that is not in compliance with the highest standards of democracy, human and minority rights, you can write that this text is bad." Does anyone knows what Milosevic wants to say with this? Does he mean that this text will improve human rights in Serbia or that will prove that human rights are not in question in Serbia? No one cares about this interview, people do care about real world and will Milosevic stop his practice of blatant violations of human rights in Serbia.
* Predsednik je svojoj sagovornici dao Zajednicki Sporazum uz napomenu, takodje zabelezenu na traci, koja glasi: "Molim Vas da procitate ovaj tekst i ako pronadjete bilo sta sto nije u skladu sa najvisim standardima demokratije, ljudskih i manjinskih prava, mozete da pisete da je los"
Zbunite zavesu, spustio sam se! Sta je Milosevic hteo sa ovime da kaze ostaje nejasno. Los tekst? Tekst nije u skladu sa demokratijom? Njegov rezim ne krsi ljudska prava? Koga to briga? Bitno je da li ce on prestati sa konstantnim i blatantnim krsenjem ljudskih prava u Srbiji a ne da li je ovaj intervju los ili ne.
FS Net Editor